ASIC owner here

I understand that most of you completely despise ASIC users but I would like to point out how much attention this project has got as a result of the new miners.
I would not have even heard of Dero until it was on a major exchange if not for me having to search for a coin to mine with my X3. When i came accross Dero i really liked what i saw and will be buying in coins as well and mining with my GPU/CPUs after the switch. In fact i signed up to new exchange just to buy more Dero. I am very happy/excited to see you wont just be forking to a different algo but instead coming up with a actual solution to ASIC.

So if nothing else just know this has showed a lot of people what a great project and community this is

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i have asic and gpu.but i want no asic

So, we should thank you for taking coins away from small miners? The reason DERO has exposure is due to their tech and the amazing team. That is what is driving this community and will continue to long after ASICs are gone.

The one valid point you should have made was that ASICs helped the dev team test the network at high load.

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Did i at any point say you should thanks me kid? Like i said the ONLY reason i found this coin was because i was looking for a new cryptonote to mine not because there has been any talk of the amazing team or tech. Oh and i never said ASIC helped the devs test network load. Did you even read what i wrote? if you represent the community then i was mistaken about it being “great”. lol

You were asserting that the “new miners” (ASIC miners) are to be credited for the attention that this project has received. This effectively takes away from the accomplishments of the DERO team.

I know that you never said that ASICs helped the devs test the network, but you should have. It would have helped your novel and insightful post.

I do not represent the community. Just someone posting on a forum, much like yourself.

EDIT: I know that this is a moot point, I just wanted to provide clarity through another perspective. No need to get triggered, I know that many dislike ASICs, but not necessarily the miners behind them. This “kid” will digress.

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Apparently there’s a misunderstanding here

Our decisions are not related to allowing or removing any kind of miners. We have targets that we aim to achieve, and that’s what we’re doing

Allow me please to direct your attention to our latest update so you get a better idea of what I’m talking about, and probably why we are changing PoW algorithm

i have read your 2 monthly updates and most of the forums/twitter post from you and serena. Thanks Mojo

I am still unsure why this dank guy started in on me like this. i was being positive and he comes on here talking down to me and twisting my words. I certainly hope your other community members arent as ignorant and hostile as this kid or this project will have a hard time attracting participating members of the community

This is a public forum and everyone is entitled to share their opinion as long as we keep things within the boundaries of respect

You shared your opinion, they shared theirs. That’s it

Your idea of positive in this specific case apparently isn’t what others see as positive, and that’s how usually opinions work, so let’s take it easy :slight_smile:

Jake, I am very anti-ASICs for a great many reasons. One thing that the pro ASICs group regularly argue is that they secure the network. The arguments to and fro on that have been well rehearsed on both sides - but there is one point I recently considered which I have not seen raised anywhere in this regard.

Just before I get to that, I need to recap/put some context down.

To summarise, Pro ASICs argue that the higher hash rate protects against a 51% attack because more resources are required. The counter argument runs that the risk of a 51% attack and/or other network compromise is greater because of centralisation of control/production of the ASICs, lack of transparency and a central point/limited pools of pressure for governments to hit the hashrate/control the network. There is also Bitmain’s proven ‘kill switches’ in past miners and the fact that miners ‘phone home’ revealing their IP addresses exposing their operators to potential government or other agency pressure - none of which is good and all of which will provide leverage for those that want to undermine the crypto revolution.

I also think the 51% attack vector is probably only a temporary risk because as the adoption of crypto grows, the mining base will also grow organically making the need for high hash rate concentrations not only redundant but also highly undesirable for reasons of robustness and resilience way beyond the afore mentioned issues.

Lots of small miners will by definition be widely scattered geographically. This makes them difficult for any single organisation to compromise directly but there is another really important inbuilt consideration - the risk of a major geographically based electronics destroying/debilitating event. These are not the stuff of myth either. Almost the entire Canadian electricity grid was taken out some years ago by a massive solar flare and the state of South Australia had a state wide blackout for several days following its huge move to renewable energy (it has since installed the largest battery ever built to provide a backup source and it has had to be used at least once).

If there is wholescale adoption of ASICs - which will certainly mean centralised clusters, the network will become much less robust in coping with such geographical events - just one more reason why I think ASICs are a bad idea.

I completely understand all of this and agree deroguy. I still think ASICs havent been all bad for Dero as far as exposure/building support. Not to mention this awesome idea of having the algo change/generate new ones seems to have been sparked by this need or want to get away from ASICs(despite what mojo says).

I was just saying that in the long run the project will be stronger for having been through this. Im not advocating for use of ASICs though i do feel they add security, that they are cheaper then 1080TIs($1000 for one vs $2000 for an ASIC) and more energy efficient

Regarding the subject of energy efficiency and robust network, allow me to point your attention to a discussion we were having

I’ve pointed this out before, but the whole energy efficiency argument is illusionary. All that happens is the hashrate rises to compensate. The energy consumption of the device is not relevant - what is relevant is the energy consumption per coin emission and that is broadly constant. GPUs have the advantage that they are never just scrap, are more accessible to ‘ordinary’ people, allow newcomers to start mining and contributing without having to buy new H/W in many cases (because they often already have newish systems) and are less centralised. ASICs bring nothing beneficial to the coin as a community.

That said, I do agree that beating off the ASICs will make the coin better in the long run … if they are successfully eradicated.

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lol see thats what im talking about, i like the way this guy responds, Substance and no attitude. though mojo probably wants us to go to the thread about this. I understand everyone has a opinion(mostly negative) about ASICs and i wasnt trying to go there. Just trying to make that last point you had there

Hey - I like a good debate. If my arguments don’t stand scrutiny then they need changing. Without being challenged, how will I know what I have missed (by definition if I’ve missed it I can’t know)? Glad you felt this was a healthy debate :slight_smile:

I think mojo is a bot. Anyone able to confirm?

Your argument is invalid

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I guess that is a yes then …

No, I’m just joking

It’s a joke that’s been going for a while since I barely sleep :slight_smile:

(Or is it? :thinking: )

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Its sometimes really not understandable how miners react. I honestly think that miners that have invested in GPU racks only want to protect their investment and try to stop progress of technologies for their own pocket money.

The world is moving guys and you need to move with the world! Sometimes I feel that this whole asic debate is about stopping all technologies just for a few people that need pocket money.

Asics are just a small moment in time, before we know there will be FPGA’s that will multiply the power of asics. For sure a bit later in time a new technologies will be there that multiply this of the FPGA’s that outbeat the asics.

When our past generations moved from a wooden wheel to a rubber wheel a lot of lobbying and a lot of screaming was done because some invested in machines to make the wooden wheel, some had tools lying around and could make some wheels with it. They all made profit from it but suddenly there was better technologie and their profit dropped if not adapted. Offcouse there was a whole debate about that one guy/company that invented the rubber wheel would dominate and so on… (same as all now with just some asics…)

Can you image what would be the world now if they could really stop that wheel progression, if they really managed to stop that technologie? All transportion on rubber wheels would not exist as we speak…

The moment Monero decided to try to stop the future I repointed my rigs partially to Dero and other projects (more and more point the rigs to Dero, what is more KH than multiple asics do).

A coin that do this to protect a small group of people is nothing better than the Nord Korea dedicator, he also protect a small group of people. You can see what the country is because of that.

I like that Dero is not stopping any progression, in fact they follow their own way to create the rubber wheel. That this stops some existing technologies for now is perfect fine, as this is complete different than on purpose changing to stop technologie to favor a group of people (In fact our goverments, of all reading this, do nothing else than this and blockchain is a strong reaction of these practices from all of us mankind).

I personally also owns asics. I own the Decred D9 machine. I bought it because I believe in the Decred project same as I believe in the Dero project.

I like the new way Dero go and like that they never mentioned that the fork is because new techologie mining and like that they never in any moment in time have talked about favoring any group of people.

This is what blockchain is all about!

Good work team Dero!

For people that are screaming about new technologie, look to Decred. I see in Dero the same clear vision!

Keep up the good work and open vision!

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